check out my project
09-28-2009, 05:27 PM
#1
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check out my project
i know most of you dont like me due to me being a retard on the forums but i wanted to show you guys the turbo thats going into my jk. and i recently put my 4.88's in myself and they're doing good after 800 miles. ill be working on the turbo for the next couple months getting everything together and i already have a guy thats gona tune it in ft lauderdale...
the writing on the turbo are from an inspector saying its good
and please tell me what you think whether its good or bad, ive learned my lesson on maturity on the forums, ha
oh and its gona have one 3inch stack on the left of the windshield and a snokel straight to the turbo on the right of the windshield
the writing on the turbo are from an inspector saying its goodand please tell me what you think whether its good or bad, ive learned my lesson on maturity on the forums, ha
oh and its gona have one 3inch stack on the left of the windshield and a snokel straight to the turbo on the right of the windshield
Last edited by heepsta; 09-28-2009 at 05:39 PM.
09-28-2009, 07:02 PM
#2
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Well, here's my $0.02. I think the install (all said and done) will run you around $4K....and probably not work the way you're envisioning.
I had a turbo on my Camaro for nearly 3 years (see sig). There's a LOT more involved than slapping a hair-dryer on the car and blasting down the street. Here's the short list:
1. You'll need to fab the hot-side. That's custom manifolds from each head to spin the turbo. If you go mild steel the pipes will eat themselves apart in no time. Stainless pipe, mounting flange, downpipe, and wastegate will set you back $500 or more. To keep from baking everything under hood the pipes should be coated and depending on the location of the turbo, you might need a blanket (to protect the rest of the engine components. Add another couple hundred.
2. Cold side piping won't cost much, but quality connectors and T-bolt clamps will. If you go the cheap route with couplers or clamps, they will blow apart with anything more than 5PSI.
3. Now..... (here's where things get ugly and expensive.) Unless you like valve float, there's a good chance the valvesprings will need to be upgraded. Jeep didn't have high RPM HP in mind when they designed the 3.8, and the valvespring seat pressure was designed accordingly. Same for the pushrods. Hardened pushrods will do fine, but the stock ones will be prone to warping from the added pressure on the valves. Add a good $250 for both.
4. Next issue is fuel. Stock injectors won't cut it for a turbo (at least not stock tuned injectors). More fuel also creates more demand on the stock pump, which isn't necessarily up to the task of feeding the required gas to the engine. This will become even more apparent using the stock regulator. At high RPM, injectors fight against the boost pressure, which is why companies like Aeromotive make boost referenced regulators. The latter will require converting the fuel system. Not hard, but around $700 all said and done.
5. Once those issues are solved...... cooling the boost charge. An intercooler is great, but is not efficient at low speed. Meth is the answer. Add $200+ for a Snow Performance or similiar meth kit.
6. Finally, even if the physicl changes are made, the Jeep still needs to be tuned to the changes. There are no available aftermarket tuning programs for the JK (such as HPTuners and EFILive for GM or Hondata for Honda.) This leaves you at the mercy of the shop performing the tune (if they actually have the proper software to do this). Standard FI tuning is $500+, and if the shop does not have a lot of experience in tuning boosted engines, there is a good chance you can crack a piston. A wideband air/fuel gauge is all but mandatory on an aftermarket turbo car. The AEM UEGO is about the cheapest one on the market. It runs $250.
The reward for all this. You have a pic of a nice T60 turbo....which is great for a baby V8. It'll work on the JK, but will probably lag until 3500RPM before building boost (unless you spend big money on a progressive boost controller). Now this might be cool with you, but most Jeep owners do not want the meat of their power in the 3500-5500RPM range. They want it much lower............which is why...........
the aftermarket has gone with superchargers on the JK. Even the centrifugal Vortech used by RippMods will produce boost at a much lower RPM than the turbo. The only way to decrease the spool time on the turbo is to either
A. Use a smaller snail (like a T06), or
B. increase the timing/lean the fuel mixture to produce more heat and exhaust gas velocity. The latter will fry your engine, so it's not really an option.
Long, yes, but I wanted to illustrate my point. I'm not poking at you. It's cool that people want to try new things on the JK, but I think this project will end in disappointment + a lot of wasted time.....and probably cost the same as a ready to install supercharger kit.
I had a turbo on my Camaro for nearly 3 years (see sig). There's a LOT more involved than slapping a hair-dryer on the car and blasting down the street. Here's the short list:
1. You'll need to fab the hot-side. That's custom manifolds from each head to spin the turbo. If you go mild steel the pipes will eat themselves apart in no time. Stainless pipe, mounting flange, downpipe, and wastegate will set you back $500 or more. To keep from baking everything under hood the pipes should be coated and depending on the location of the turbo, you might need a blanket (to protect the rest of the engine components. Add another couple hundred.
2. Cold side piping won't cost much, but quality connectors and T-bolt clamps will. If you go the cheap route with couplers or clamps, they will blow apart with anything more than 5PSI.
3. Now..... (here's where things get ugly and expensive.) Unless you like valve float, there's a good chance the valvesprings will need to be upgraded. Jeep didn't have high RPM HP in mind when they designed the 3.8, and the valvespring seat pressure was designed accordingly. Same for the pushrods. Hardened pushrods will do fine, but the stock ones will be prone to warping from the added pressure on the valves. Add a good $250 for both.
4. Next issue is fuel. Stock injectors won't cut it for a turbo (at least not stock tuned injectors). More fuel also creates more demand on the stock pump, which isn't necessarily up to the task of feeding the required gas to the engine. This will become even more apparent using the stock regulator. At high RPM, injectors fight against the boost pressure, which is why companies like Aeromotive make boost referenced regulators. The latter will require converting the fuel system. Not hard, but around $700 all said and done.
5. Once those issues are solved...... cooling the boost charge. An intercooler is great, but is not efficient at low speed. Meth is the answer. Add $200+ for a Snow Performance or similiar meth kit.
6. Finally, even if the physicl changes are made, the Jeep still needs to be tuned to the changes. There are no available aftermarket tuning programs for the JK (such as HPTuners and EFILive for GM or Hondata for Honda.) This leaves you at the mercy of the shop performing the tune (if they actually have the proper software to do this). Standard FI tuning is $500+, and if the shop does not have a lot of experience in tuning boosted engines, there is a good chance you can crack a piston. A wideband air/fuel gauge is all but mandatory on an aftermarket turbo car. The AEM UEGO is about the cheapest one on the market. It runs $250.
The reward for all this. You have a pic of a nice T60 turbo....which is great for a baby V8. It'll work on the JK, but will probably lag until 3500RPM before building boost (unless you spend big money on a progressive boost controller). Now this might be cool with you, but most Jeep owners do not want the meat of their power in the 3500-5500RPM range. They want it much lower............which is why...........
the aftermarket has gone with superchargers on the JK. Even the centrifugal Vortech used by RippMods will produce boost at a much lower RPM than the turbo. The only way to decrease the spool time on the turbo is to either
A. Use a smaller snail (like a T06), or
B. increase the timing/lean the fuel mixture to produce more heat and exhaust gas velocity. The latter will fry your engine, so it's not really an option.
Long, yes, but I wanted to illustrate my point. I'm not poking at you. It's cool that people want to try new things on the JK, but I think this project will end in disappointment + a lot of wasted time.....and probably cost the same as a ready to install supercharger kit.
09-28-2009, 07:26 PM
#3
JK Super Freak
Here we go again.....
What is that turbo out of? You may end up spending more for a turbo retro-fit than you would on a made-for-your-Jeep supercharger that has already been tried and tested true.
What is that turbo out of? You may end up spending more for a turbo retro-fit than you would on a made-for-your-Jeep supercharger that has already been tried and tested true.
09-29-2009, 06:26 AM
#4
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You are crazy Christopher Columbus, everybody knows you can't get east by sailing west- you'll fall off the edge of the earth!!!
Good for you for trying. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. But you'll never know if you don't give it a shot, and you'll probably learn a lot along the way.
Good for you for trying. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. But you'll never know if you don't give it a shot, and you'll probably learn a lot along the way.
09-29-2009, 05:32 PM
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ive had a pretty modified mazdaspeed6 before which is a turbo awd competitor of the evo and sti, so i know what im doing and its only going to cost about 1500 said and done because im fabbing all the flanges and piping and doing all the labor myself, the only thing im not doing is the tune and the tuner has already turbod similar projects and is extremely knowledgeable and i will make over 300 whp at 5 to 8 psi and no blown motor, he turbod a 3.8 caravan and got over 300 and no blown motor then after i get that, then ill spend the big bucks and build the bottom end and crap and shoot for high boost but that wont be for a while
Last edited by heepsta; 09-29-2009 at 05:59 PM.
09-29-2009, 07:44 PM
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nay sayers
The trick to it will actually be getting the right turbin and compressor trims with the right housing & compressor cover. Mathmatically it's doable. Think about the first turbos... they were born of a need for more power with no computers, no forged metals, no 10000 types of alloys to choose from. I'm on board.
I believe it was not a cost effective way to boost the JK for the the companies who have successfully built SC's for it. I'm sure several of the engineers have tried to crunch the numbers and it's not equitable for them to do all the R&D for a product that could be meddled with (by the end user)to the point of total melt down. Not to mention the fact that you have to still build in emissions for it to be street legal. You just can't argue with a company that has been built and is still successful by backing their products. They have a name to protect.
That being said, I still think that it can be done and maybe even with gear from the scrap yard. I will be looking at compressor maps and making a sound decision when I do embark on my boost adventure.
I believe it was not a cost effective way to boost the JK for the the companies who have successfully built SC's for it. I'm sure several of the engineers have tried to crunch the numbers and it's not equitable for them to do all the R&D for a product that could be meddled with (by the end user)to the point of total melt down. Not to mention the fact that you have to still build in emissions for it to be street legal. You just can't argue with a company that has been built and is still successful by backing their products. They have a name to protect.
That being said, I still think that it can be done and maybe even with gear from the scrap yard. I will be looking at compressor maps and making a sound decision when I do embark on my boost adventure.
Last edited by lamar95x4; 09-29-2009 at 07:47 PM. Reason: added content
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Hope it works as you envision it will. My Camaro had $9500 in the turbo setup.....and I built that system myself too.
09-30-2009, 12:55 PM
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