bly109

I know what your sayin. I was just saying there is a higher chance for corrosion. The more I think about it, the more I see the advantages to the poke and loop. A properly executed crimp or solder termination is harder to acheive. In a solder joint the heat has to be applied for just the right amount of time. Too little and you get a cold joint, too much and the intermettallic layer becomes too thick and things become brittle. And there is even more invovled to achieve a properly executed crimp termination. But the poke and loop is just a basic munipulation of the wires that doesnt require any special tools. And Im sure it does a good enough job that the differences are negligible for most applications.

I learned more about wire termination them I think I ever wanted to know workin at amp/tyco. They basically wrote the book for wire terminations, so I had more training and specs then I knew what tp do with. I left there two years ago and now you made me feel like Im still there Thanks alot back to therapy

Mark Doiron

Well, I looked through the postings and didn't see several very salient points mentioned:

1. You don't want a cold solder joint. That was mentioned. But, what does that mean? You want the solder to have a shiny appearance. If it appears dull and/or mottled, it's a cold joint. Cold joints are bad because they are mechanically weak, and because they allow corrision to start.

2. Solder itself is mechanically weak. The mention about not using solder on stranded core wires in bundles is right on (27-1/2 years aircraft avionics maintenance experience here). But, I won't re-open that argument--solder if you wish. But the important thing to note is that you can't depend on solder to give a mechanical connection. You need to properly twist the wires for that (which is another mark against soldering stranded wire--they don't twist very well!).

3. Finally, since I know you're probably going to solder despite my warning in 2: Rosin core solder is for electronics/electrical wiring. Acid core solder is for sheet metal work (try it on electronics only if you don't mind lots of corrosion on your work). Silver solder is for specialized applications (say, sensitive circuitry inside your GPS).

4. Oh, one final thought: If you're just soldering wiring harnesses, you don't have to worry too much about too much heat (try to avoid melting the insulation, though!). But, inside electronics or near (electrically "near", not physically "near") sensitive components (say, a wire going into some embedded computer on the JK), voltage from the soldering iron tip can destroy the nearby electronics. If you think you're going to be soldering near some piece of electronics that might be damaged by stray voltage, either disconnect the electronics (if possible), or use a soldering iron designed for that type of work.

Edit: Added 4.

jprubiconTN

Thanks for all of the input.

I am going to try to pick up a soldering iron today and mess around on the bench before i go to work on the Jeep.

Thanks again!
Scott

elwood58

Be careful, and put something solid under your work to protect the area. You would not be the first to drop a hot blob of solder on your interior or carpet.

If your hands are shaking, take a break until they are not.

hig4s

For stranded wire use crimp lugs, soldered wires will break due to vibration.. Of course Jeeps don't vibrate so you don't have to worry about that.
If you need them water proof, put a piece of heat shrink large enough to slide over the crimp connector first.

Eracer76

That is not true....
Ive been soldering wires in vehicles for over 10 years as an electronics installer, when done right, soldered wires do not break due to vibrations.
Believe me, Ive seen and fixed my share of other peoples very bad installs, cold solder joints, over heated joints, you name it, but never have I ever seen a broken solder joint or a broken wire from soldering!

I have also seen many bad crimp lugs/caps/butt connectors whatever you want to call them...whether it be over crimped, broken, pulled out, wiggled out, corroded, they just suck!

In my 10 plus years of installing and soldering, Ive never had to fix any of my own connections

Mark Doiron

Actually Hig4s is completely correct. And you're mostly correct. Jeeps are not a high vibration area. Though I think Hig4s was being facetious, he is correct. If you've ever flown on a turboprop (I have 4500 C-130 flying hours), than you understand a high vibration environment. Only crimped connectors are used to connect stranded wiring; soldered connections break both due to high vibration, and due to the movement of wiring bundles caused by the stresses of flight. That's 27-1/2 years of aircraft avionics maintenance experience saying so. Now, can you get away with soldering stranded wiring on a Jeep? Yeah. But, that doesn't mean it's more durable--it isn't if the crimped connections use quality connectors and a properly set crimping tool. However, a soldered connection is "good enough" for Jeep service. So, solder if you prefer, or use quality crimped connections with a heat-set waterproofing insulation.

pitcoken

The object is to obtain a mechanically secure, gas-tight union. A properly sized wire nut does the BEST job when space is not an issue. As has been hinted at, gas-tight is always important. But gt is especially important in low voltage, low current signalling circuits! Your headlights might work for years with the poke and twist because the current is high enough that the increasing resistance isn't a factor. Not so with digital inputs to modern electronics! How to tell if you are using too much heat? 1) The insulation melts (duh!) and 2) solder is wicked into the wire well beyond the juction area creating a stiff single strand wire from your nice flexible stranded one. Crimp unions and terminations are only recommended if you have high quality terminals that are PROPERLY sized and applied using a high quality (preferably calibrated) crimper. Cheap terminals relax the crimp and corrode. Cheap crimpers (NEVER pliers!) either do not crimp tight enough to create the gas tight connection or crimp TOO tight damaging the wire and turning your 12 ga wire into a 16 ga wire. Oh yes, my credentials. I have 1.5 million years of racial memories that qualify me to make this response.

hig4s

When you've been around long enough you will learn.. I've been doing it for 32 years, staring out as an electronics comm tech in the Navy for the first 6, and a radio installer for the rail road for another 12. I know something about wiring in high vibration situations. If done well soldered connection can be pretty good, but it is a fact that anyplace solder has wicked up the wire it is much stiffer than the braided wire. The purpose of braided wire is to make it flexible along it's length. Right where the flexible braided meets the stiff solder is a potential break point. Because of the way a crimp connector works it allows some movement and flex of the wires inside the crimp. Soldering may work, and my not give you any trouble. But why do something the hard way if the easy way is more reliable.

go to the bottom of this page and look at the heat shrink butt splices.
http://www.crowbarelectricalparts.co...Connectors.htm

Mark Doiron

I'm certain you're not suggesting this, but let me be very clear: A wire nut should never be used on a connection that isn't completely static (eg, house wiring). There's too much chance that the nut will back off, exposing the bare connection.

--mark d.