HID's
04-19-2011, 11:55 AM
#31
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I have seen a lot of these comments lately that installing an hid kit is illegal. Since it is coming from all over the USA, I assume this must be a federal law.
Anybody point me to it? Not talking about merits of the HID or anything else. I am just curious as to how I missed the memo. This is such common knowledge that it is either written clear as day somewhere or (probably) wives tale quality head nodding.
Anybody point me to it? Not talking about merits of the HID or anything else. I am just curious as to how I missed the memo. This is such common knowledge that it is either written clear as day somewhere or (probably) wives tale quality head nodding.
In a nutshell, you're allowed to mount new headlights, change the type of light, but the lights you mount must be compliant with the photometric requirements spelled out by the DOT.
In other words, an HID capsule in a halogen reflector doesn't work. An HID capsule in an HID reflector works. And so on. Just as long as the item in question was tested to comply my somebody.
That leads us to purchase from reputable entities like Rallylights and Daniel Stern Lighting ---- companies with a good ethic about the legality of the products they sell.
04-19-2011, 10:22 PM
#32
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Here's a link to the specific law. It's a long read and I've gone through it.
In a nutshell, you're allowed to mount new headlights, change the type of light, but the lights you mount must be compliant with the photometric requirements spelled out by the DOT.
In other words, an HID capsule in a halogen reflector doesn't work. An HID capsule in an HID reflector works. And so on. Just as long as the item in question was tested to comply my somebody.
That leads us to purchase from reputable entities like Rallylights and Daniel Stern Lighting ---- companies with a good ethic about the legality of the products they sell.
In a nutshell, you're allowed to mount new headlights, change the type of light, but the lights you mount must be compliant with the photometric requirements spelled out by the DOT.
In other words, an HID capsule in a halogen reflector doesn't work. An HID capsule in an HID reflector works. And so on. Just as long as the item in question was tested to comply my somebody.
That leads us to purchase from reputable entities like Rallylights and Daniel Stern Lighting ---- companies with a good ethic about the legality of the products they sell.
I know that the replacement lights may not be DOT approved, but that doesn't in and of itself mean they are illegal. I don't imagine a RIPP, skid plates, etc are DOT approved either. But that doesn't mean it is illegal to install them. Some things are illegal for the manufacturer, but not for private persons. Say an RRC XHD bumper.
If you can repost a link that would be appreciated. I started reading DOT § 571.108 but it is VERY long, so anything shortening it up would be nice.
04-19-2011, 10:30 PM
#33
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Link didn't work for me. I am interested in reading it though, and thank you for posting a link.
I know that the replacement lights may not be DOT approved, but that doesn't in and of itself mean they are illegal. I don't imagine a RIPP, skid plates, etc are DOT approved either. But that doesn't mean it is illegal to install them. Some things are illegal for the manufacturer, but not for private persons. Say an RRC XHD bumper.
If you can repost a link that would be appreciated. I started reading DOT § 571.108 but it is VERY long, so anything shortening it up would be nice.
I know that the replacement lights may not be DOT approved, but that doesn't in and of itself mean they are illegal. I don't imagine a RIPP, skid plates, etc are DOT approved either. But that doesn't mean it is illegal to install them. Some things are illegal for the manufacturer, but not for private persons. Say an RRC XHD bumper.
If you can repost a link that would be appreciated. I started reading DOT § 571.108 but it is VERY long, so anything shortening it up would be nice.
04-19-2011, 10:35 PM
#34
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These HIDs wont get you pulled over automatically, but are not DOT approved. I found 3 websites on a Officers forum that prove that they are not such.
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html[/url]
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/deetz.ztv.html[/url]
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/kim.ztv.html[/url]
If an officer pulls you over for something at night, and notices your HIDs youll probably be dealing with that too. DO your research before you go calling people out about "wives tales" good sir.
George
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html[/url]
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/deetz.ztv.html[/url]
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/kim.ztv.html[/url]
If an officer pulls you over for something at night, and notices your HIDs youll probably be dealing with that too. DO your research before you go calling people out about "wives tales" good sir.
George
If lights that are not DOT approved are illegal, I would have to imagine that they are primary offenses meaning that you can be pulled over and ticketed on that alone. These things are not grey areas. I know the cops think they are, but that has a lot to do with common attitude in the field. Headlights are a primary safety issue, you can be detained for not using them, certainly improper headlights would be the same thing.
I couldn't get your links to work either.
04-19-2011, 10:37 PM
#35
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That was fast. Thanks, that is what I am reading right now. I guess I just trudge through it. Specific page you have in mind?
04-20-2011, 04:05 AM
#36
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Here's another LINK to the related laws.
Federal law in this area supercedes any and all states' laws in states where federal monies are allocated for highway funding ---- uh, all of them, in other words.
Prior to 2005 it was illegal to install any aftermarket lighting devices in place of OE reflectors. In 2005 the NHTSA re-interpretted FMVSS and changed their view on installing alternate reflectors as well as alternate light sources (ie, HID, LED, HIR, etc). Their only provision being that the source match the reflector, the photometry tested and proved compliant with either DOT or ECE criteria.
That was a milestone for them and I don't think it unreasonable at all.
What you have to understand is that halogen burners, HID arc capsules, & LED emitters all produce light in different ways, different spectrums, different focal lengths, etc. There is no one-size-fits-all method of delivering that light. Due to the orientation of the sources in HID and halogen, everything is skewed if you start swapping components. It just doesn't work.
Remember that the idea is to see where you're going, not blind others, and not create a situation where you might blind yourself. HID capsules in halogen reflectors scatter light willy-nilly; just look at one of those "kits" in action on a foggy day and you'll understand what I mean.
Federal law in this area supercedes any and all states' laws in states where federal monies are allocated for highway funding ---- uh, all of them, in other words.
Prior to 2005 it was illegal to install any aftermarket lighting devices in place of OE reflectors. In 2005 the NHTSA re-interpretted FMVSS and changed their view on installing alternate reflectors as well as alternate light sources (ie, HID, LED, HIR, etc). Their only provision being that the source match the reflector, the photometry tested and proved compliant with either DOT or ECE criteria.
That was a milestone for them and I don't think it unreasonable at all.
What you have to understand is that halogen burners, HID arc capsules, & LED emitters all produce light in different ways, different spectrums, different focal lengths, etc. There is no one-size-fits-all method of delivering that light. Due to the orientation of the sources in HID and halogen, everything is skewed if you start swapping components. It just doesn't work.
Remember that the idea is to see where you're going, not blind others, and not create a situation where you might blind yourself. HID capsules in halogen reflectors scatter light willy-nilly; just look at one of those "kits" in action on a foggy day and you'll understand what I mean.
Last edited by Hilldweller; 04-20-2011 at 04:10 AM.
04-20-2011, 04:09 AM
#37
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Now, as far as enforcement goes, there are states and jurisdictions that know the law and go after illegal HID retrofits. VA and MD are notorious for it; CA/NY/NJ have some spotty enforcement.
The penalty is $10,000 fine --- and you park your car and take a cab home...
I spoke to a local LEO here in GA last week about it. Not only didn't he know the law, he was completely oblivious to it and thought that illegal HIDs were legal and that yellow lights were illegal. He said that he targetted the yellow crowd and wrote lots of tickets for it.
The DOT says that headlight sources have to be white; some old European standards called for yellow. White certainly will work better though.
If it comes down to an accident, one caused by glare from your illegal HID retrofit, do you really think the juice was worth the squeeze if you now face legal and civil penalties? That's not just fines, that's jail time when you talk about culpable liability.
Give it a think.
The penalty is $10,000 fine --- and you park your car and take a cab home...
I spoke to a local LEO here in GA last week about it. Not only didn't he know the law, he was completely oblivious to it and thought that illegal HIDs were legal and that yellow lights were illegal. He said that he targetted the yellow crowd and wrote lots of tickets for it.
The DOT says that headlight sources have to be white; some old European standards called for yellow. White certainly will work better though.
If it comes down to an accident, one caused by glare from your illegal HID retrofit, do you really think the juice was worth the squeeze if you now face legal and civil penalties? That's not just fines, that's jail time when you talk about culpable liability.
Give it a think.
Last edited by Hilldweller; 04-20-2011 at 04:12 AM.
04-20-2011, 04:53 PM
#38
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10,000 dollar fine for using hid's? seems rediculas. im ordering the hid kit from ddm but should i go with 8000k or like 6000k i want the whitest and brightest that i can, im also on the website and what bulb type should i use aswell, there are a bunch of options. where is the options for hi/low option?
04-20-2011, 07:59 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Hilldweller
Now, as far as enforcement goes, there are states and jurisdictions that know the law and go after illegal HID retrofits. VA and MD are notorious for it; CA/NY/NJ have some spotty enforcement.
The penalty is $10,000 fine --- and you park your car and take a cab home...
I spoke to a local LEO here in GA last week about it. Not only didn't he know the law, he was completely oblivious to it and thought that illegal HIDs were legal and that yellow lights were illegal. He said that he targetted the yellow crowd and wrote lots of tickets for it.
The DOT says that headlight sources have to be white; some old European standards called for yellow. White certainly will work better though.
If it comes down to an accident, one caused by glare from your illegal HID retrofit, do you really think the juice was worth the squeeze if you now face legal and civil penalties? That's not just fines, that's jail time when you talk about culpable liability.
Give it a think.
The penalty is $10,000 fine --- and you park your car and take a cab home...
I spoke to a local LEO here in GA last week about it. Not only didn't he know the law, he was completely oblivious to it and thought that illegal HIDs were legal and that yellow lights were illegal. He said that he targetted the yellow crowd and wrote lots of tickets for it.
The DOT says that headlight sources have to be white; some old European standards called for yellow. White certainly will work better though.
If it comes down to an accident, one caused by glare from your illegal HID retrofit, do you really think the juice was worth the squeeze if you now face legal and civil penalties? That's not just fines, that's jail time when you talk about culpable liability.
Give it a think.
Thanks though.
04-20-2011, 08:01 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by srt8ftw
10,000 dollar fine for using hid's? seems rediculas. im ordering the hid kit from ddm but should i go with 8000k or like 6000k i want the whitest and brightest that i can, im also on the website and what bulb type should i use aswell, there are a bunch of options. where is the options for hi/low option?