BStelling

So my factory OEM battery just crapped out and the Jeep is three years old so that was expected. I'm looking for a new battery that will last. I've read a few different posts about the Red and Yellow Optima batteries but I'm a little confused on which direction to go and if into that brand. I live up here in Montana so the winters are a little harsh. I do like to run the radio without the truck running while I'm working on it as well as I do use the winch quite a few times for different occasions. If it matters...its a four door Rubicon running a 9.5ti Warn winch. Soon i'll be upgrading the sound system as well so I'd like to know what's your guys take on which route to take in batteries.

Bryson

Rednroll

I just installed a Sears Diehard Platinum Marine. From what I've read is that the Diehard Platinum is the same battery as the Odyssey made by Enersys, just rebranded for Sears and costs almost $100 less. The Odyssey is also supposed to be better than the Optimas. The Diehard Platinum also comes with a 4 year free replacement warranty.

Compare for yourself:
Odyssey:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc1500t.htm
Diehard Platinum
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850034000P?vName=Automotive&cName= Batteries+%26+Chargers

I can't give any personal experience with the battery since I just bought it 2 days ago, and haven't seen any cold weather with it, but a lot of people recommend this battery for the JK over the Optimas.

You will need Group size 34 for the JK.

If you go here you'll find that Enersys is indeed the maker of the Diehard Platinum.
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm

This is the Marine version. Has a 3 year warranty. The price at sears was actually 189.99, not 199.99 as shown on their site.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850134000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&block Type=G1

BStelling

alright sounds good, I'll definitely go take a look at them. Thanks a lot!

Bryson

Benchmark Designs Inc.

For serious battery power and the ability to run your stereo/lighting/winch with the Jeep on or off, check out our battery kits:

http://www.benchmarkdesigns.com/inde...index&cPath=22

Ridge

Is there any difference between the Die Hard Platinum size 34 regular and marine versions other than the additional terminals? I have the regular version but I am wondering if it would be good to run the marine version as my second battery - I am just about to install the Benchmark kit. I see the comment on the Deep Discharge recovery on the Marine battery description but it appears to be identical as far as the plates, acid quality, and construction so wouldn't they both have the same deep discharge capability? If they are the same, then the marine battery may just have a shorter warranty due to expected degradation from off season storage and the regular battery would be the better buy. Thoughts?

Benchmark Designs Inc.

The marine and auto are the same other than terminal layout. The marine has dual top terminals, the auto has top and side.

I recommend the marine version. Die Hard Platinum PM-2. The extra top terminals are handy for accessories.

Rednroll

You know??? I seem to be educating myself more and more recently about batteries, and when I went with the marine my concept of what "Deep Cycle" was a bit skewed. My thinking was that "Deep Cycle" marine would be better for my high power audio system needs.....but now I realize, unless I'm running the audio system for long periods of time without the vehicle running, that may not be true.

"Deep Cycle" just means you can run the battery charge down to 80% below a full charge and still be able to recharge it properly where non marine Deep Cycle batteries you're good until 50%. Letting the battery go lower charged than that will cause it to fail prematurely. This is why the Marine probably only has a 3 year warranty, and the standard has a 4 year warranty because they don't expect you to run it down as much as the Marine. They're probably the same battery...and just adjust the warranty to how they're expecting you to use them. So in my opinion you're fine with either. If I could repurchase mine, I might even go with the standard instead, to get the 1 year extra warranty. I do like the extra available terminals for the marine though. Seems pretty handy if I just want to disc/reco the power wire to my audio amplifiers, or connect a winch.

Rednroll

I've been reading a lot of "bad" stories about the Optimas, including some on this site and decided to kick off a personal investigation to see if I could find out what the heck is going on with the Optima, since a lot of people rave about them, while other long time users will no longer touch them and have switched to the Diehard Platinum/Odyssey option.

I just posted this message on a Toyota Tundra forum, since my investigation led me there.

Link to full Discussion:
Title: Goodbye Optima, Hello Die Hard Platinum
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/158687-goodbye-optima-hello-die-hard-platinum-4/#post1532171

Jim, I highly respect the information you have posted. However, I am an electrical engineer who works for a company which supplies electrical components to Toyota where I specialize in problem solving and I always keep asking the question "Why?" during problem solving, until I can no longer ask that question any longer, so that I get to the final/real root cause of a problem. It's a process that was taught to me by working with Toyota engineers....and since this is a "Tundra" website, it only felt fitting that I should reply.

I actually visit Jeep Wrangler forums on a regular basis, since I own a Jeep Wrangler and have read many disappointed Jeep off-road stories associated with the Optima batteries, similar to what I'm reading in this discussion. I have actually noticed you seem to be on a damage control mission, to try and clear up some of the misinformation, since I've seen you post on multiple Jeep Wrangler forums. This is a good thing, the truth is always good since things can get out of hand due to people speculating and not knowing.

I recently purchased a new battery for my Wrangler and decided to go with the Diehard Platinum, but yes the Optima was high on my consideration list. The truth of the matter was that I haven't read any bad experience stories with the Die-Hard Platinum/Odyssey batteries, but there have been many bad Optima stories and a lot of Wrangler Optima enthusiasts have been switching to the Diehard Platinum/Odyssey battery as a better solution. For me personally in regards to my purchase decision, it was a matter of less bad stories, better specifications, better price, and a better warranty.

So anyways when I read your statement above......

Quote:

many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly recharged.

It made me ask the question WHY are many of the "bad" batteries returned just deeply discharged?So, I did some reading/investigating and found a very interesting and informative post by someone which I believe explains the high warranty return of Optima batteries that are just deeply discharged and would also seem to explain why some people have had a terrific experience, while others have had repeated failures in a short amount of time. (ie I've read a few posts where users have had to replace their Optima Yellow top up to 3 different times in a 1-3 month period each.) Now, I do deal with Warranty returns being in the automotive industry and often look at PPM statistical numbers and 3 returns for the same person with 3 separate Optima batteries in the same vehicle caught my attention as being a statistical anomaly and made me wonder.....Could their manufacturing quality really be that bad or could this be more of a design related problem inherent to the design of the battery?

So let me post the information I found:

So feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, since it's the truth we're after and the message you seem to come to deliver when you posted. After reading this information this is the conclusion that I have come to. The Optima battery has a higher MINIMUM charging voltage than most batteries available in their class. If the alternator/charging system or driving conditions is not capable of reaching the 13.65V minimum charge voltage then the Optima battery will not be able to fully charge. So this is the reason why one person can have multiple failures with different Optima batteries while others can go on for years without ever experiencing a problem, because it relies upon each persons particular vehicle and/or their driving habits. Since a lot of vehicle's charging systems are designed with the "typical" minimum charging voltage of most batteries in mind and not the higher "exception" as is the case with the Optima battery, then this can lead to the battery dying due to not being able to be charged properly. Thus, this is "WHY" many of the “bad” batteries returned are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly recharged.

So this seems like a problem related to the "design" specifications related to the minimum charge voltage of Optima batteries and this design flaw rears its ugly head when someone's charging system does not meet that minimum charging voltage which is higher than most other batteries. You seem to be trying to allude to user misuse as being the root cause for these many returns, and are supporting that with that there is a high amount of these batteries sold, so of course you're going to hear more "bad" stories. I'm sure there a have been a lot of Diehard Platinum batteries sold since 2007 when they where 1st started being sold by Sears also, as well as Odyssey batteries, but I'm just not reading as many stories that are similar in nature about those batteries like this one....remember, I know some things about the laws of statistics and PPMs?

Am I on to something here Jim? Is a frantic re-design activity currently going on over at Optima to try to lower that minimum charge voltage threshold? Or is this also all just misinformation? If it is misinformation then please feel free to inform us of what that misinformation is. I'm an engineer, but not a battery expert, so I'll be happy to learn something new and stand corrected, so I can pass the information along to the Jeep Wrangler crowd.

Thanks.

matt33

Wow. Thats's quite an analysis. I had two Optima RT's fail on my previously owned Nissan Titan. The truck sat for a week or two at a time and I wanted a battery that would not self discharge in that time. The Optima (the first one I bought and the warranty replacement) left me unable to start the truck more than once. The OEM battery gave me no issues, so I went back to OEM and had no further issues.

Rednroll

The engineer in myself got the best of me.

I actually, just wanted to buy a new battery, and I like to read user reviews before I purchase, then stumbled across a few forum posts with the Optima, then continued to Google search, and became interested in trying to find out what was going on with the Optimas.....where the Sherlock Holmes in me, just took over.

I've actually updated some other stuff at that Tundra Solutions forum, since no one really seemed interested in this over here....it could be because I hi-jacked this thread unintentionally and it's really not titled properly.

From what you described, if my analysis is right, then that would certainly explain the problem you had with the optima compared to the basic OEM battery.