Why the "Black Rifle" Anyway?
11-07-2008, 04:04 PM
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Why the "Black Rifle" Anyway?
Hey guys,
Since it shows on the Ammo Thread, why do some of you prefer the AR-15/M-4 Family anyway?
I looked at a Bushmaster M4 today (it is the last one in stock within a 30 mile radius of my house
) and was not overly impressed.
I never liked them (M-16) when I was in the service (The Navy still had the M-14 availibile to us in the late 80's early 90's).
Dr. Stoners later Armalite AR-180 seems 10 times the rifle over his original AR-15 design but, is not as popular.
For me, I have always preffered and own Com-Block (Simonov,Klashnikov,Dragunov) rifles for their simplicty and hitting power.
7.62x39 and 7.62x54 is readily availibile and cheap, when compared to similar 5.56/.223 Ammo.
The AK-74 was a failure due to its use of the lighter 5.56 caliber. I guess for people who are "gunning up" for the future, why choose the Black Rifle over the Klash?
Since it shows on the Ammo Thread, why do some of you prefer the AR-15/M-4 Family anyway?
I looked at a Bushmaster M4 today (it is the last one in stock within a 30 mile radius of my house
) and was not overly impressed. I never liked them (M-16) when I was in the service (The Navy still had the M-14 availibile to us in the late 80's early 90's).
Dr. Stoners later Armalite AR-180 seems 10 times the rifle over his original AR-15 design but, is not as popular.
For me, I have always preffered and own Com-Block (Simonov,Klashnikov,Dragunov) rifles for their simplicty and hitting power.
7.62x39 and 7.62x54 is readily availibile and cheap, when compared to similar 5.56/.223 Ammo.
The AK-74 was a failure due to its use of the lighter 5.56 caliber. I guess for people who are "gunning up" for the future, why choose the Black Rifle over the Klash?
11-07-2008, 04:10 PM
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Hi,
Here is a write up on the 180B:
http://www.gunblast.com/AR-180B.htm
My Dad had a Armalite 180A Sterling Built (UK) in the early 70's when I was a kid. They were very popular with the IRA in the 70's and it was a joy to shoot.
Here is a write up on the 180B:
http://www.gunblast.com/AR-180B.htm
My Dad had a Armalite 180A Sterling Built (UK) in the early 70's when I was a kid. They were very popular with the IRA in the 70's and it was a joy to shoot.
11-07-2008, 04:13 PM
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The AR-180 is a .223 but it has a completley different bolt and gas piston design.
As I understand it, after Eugene Stoner left Colt to form Armalite that was the one area he needed to improve on the AR-15/M-16 family.
As I understand it, after Eugene Stoner left Colt to form Armalite that was the one area he needed to improve on the AR-15/M-16 family.
11-07-2008, 04:21 PM
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Hey guys,
Since it shows on the Ammo Thread, why do some of you prefer the AR-15/M-4 Family anyway?
I looked at a Bushmaster M4 today (it is the last one in stock within a 30 mile radius of my house) and was not overly impressed.
I never liked them (M-16) when I was in the service (The Navy still had the M-14 availibile to us in the late 80's early 90's).
Dr. Stoners later Armalite AR-180 seems 10 times the rifle over his original AR-15 design but, is not as popular.
For me, I have always preffered and own Com-Block (Simonov,Klashnikov,Dragunov) rifles for their simplicty and hitting power.
7.62x39 and 7.62x54 is readily availibile and cheap, when compared to similar 5.56/.223 Ammo.
The AK-74 was a failure due to its use of the lighter 5.56 caliber. I guess for people who are "gunning up" for the future, why choose the Black Rifle over the Klash?
Since it shows on the Ammo Thread, why do some of you prefer the AR-15/M-4 Family anyway?
I looked at a Bushmaster M4 today (it is the last one in stock within a 30 mile radius of my house
) and was not overly impressed. I never liked them (M-16) when I was in the service (The Navy still had the M-14 availibile to us in the late 80's early 90's).
Dr. Stoners later Armalite AR-180 seems 10 times the rifle over his original AR-15 design but, is not as popular.
For me, I have always preffered and own Com-Block (Simonov,Klashnikov,Dragunov) rifles for their simplicty and hitting power.
7.62x39 and 7.62x54 is readily availibile and cheap, when compared to similar 5.56/.223 Ammo.
The AK-74 was a failure due to its use of the lighter 5.56 caliber. I guess for people who are "gunning up" for the future, why choose the Black Rifle over the Klash?
First, the AK-74 is 5.45, not 5.56, just a minor detail.
With respect to the "which one is better debate" there is no better and you shouldn't look at it like that. Both rifles do things well and both have their drawbacks, neither is better than the other.
The AK is rugged and durable and the 7.62 round does have a lot of knock down power. But it's also not very accurate and cheaply built unless you get a purposely made quality version.
The AR-15 offers greater accuracy at much farther ranges than the AK and even a .223 or 5.56 is going to have some knock down power with a muzzle velocity of 3000 or so FPS. The small round, however, is not good for CQB situations and you end up having to hit someone 3 to 6 times to put them down. Not good in close quarters where things happen fast. This is why the spec ops community developed the new 6.8 mm Grendel round for the AR-15 / M16 family. There are some 6.8 chambered AR's on the market now, though the ammunition is expensive.
11-07-2008, 05:22 PM
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First, the AK-74 is 5.45, not 5.56, just a minor detail.
With respect to the "which one is better debate" there is no better and you shouldn't look at it like that. Both rifles do things well and both have their drawbacks, neither is better than the other.
The AK is rugged and durable and the 7.62 round does have a lot of knock down power. But it's also not very accurate and cheaply built unless you get a purposely made quality version.
The AR-15 offers greater accuracy at much farther ranges than the AK and even a .223 or 5.56 is going to have some knock down power with a muzzle velocity of 3000 or so FPS. The small round, however, is not good for CQB situations and you end up having to hit someone 3 to 6 times to put them down. Not good in close quarters where things happen fast. This is why the spec ops community developed the new 6.8 mm Grendel round for the AR-15 / M16 family. There are some 6.8 chambered AR's on the market now, though the ammunition is expensive.
With respect to the "which one is better debate" there is no better and you shouldn't look at it like that. Both rifles do things well and both have their drawbacks, neither is better than the other.
The AK is rugged and durable and the 7.62 round does have a lot of knock down power. But it's also not very accurate and cheaply built unless you get a purposely made quality version.
The AR-15 offers greater accuracy at much farther ranges than the AK and even a .223 or 5.56 is going to have some knock down power with a muzzle velocity of 3000 or so FPS. The small round, however, is not good for CQB situations and you end up having to hit someone 3 to 6 times to put them down. Not good in close quarters where things happen fast. This is why the spec ops community developed the new 6.8 mm Grendel round for the AR-15 / M16 family. There are some 6.8 chambered AR's on the market now, though the ammunition is expensive.
Thanks so much for the reply and info, as well as the correction on the AK-74. If I understand it correctly, the AK-74 can shoot NATO 5.56 if need be but not vice-versa?
Also, wasn't Bushmaster or someone else doing a AR-15 for 7.62x39?
11-07-2008, 05:33 PM
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11-08-2008, 01:38 PM
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The AR15 is available in a number of calibers including the 7.62. I've even seen a 9mm version.
DPMS makes one in just about any caliber you can imagine.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/
And of course my favorite, the AR-15 .50 cal. Yes 50.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trZSKDKh3nY