Home defense shotty for a woman
03-16-2012, 08:27 AM
#12
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How i load my shotgun at is very simple, my first two shots are #8 bird shot good and the following sounds are all Winchester PDX 12GA . The PDX is mix between buck and a slug round and if the first two don't get them Im surety following rounds will
03-16-2012, 08:35 AM
#13
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Rem 870 is a fine gun. My wife and daughter are about the same size, I recommend a Mossburg or Remington youth 20ga., the weight and length of the barrel are easier to handle. They come with adjustable butt stock pads. My wife and daughter have no problem handling my sons "Turkey" gun and the 20 ga is plenty of knock down, he has bagged 2 trophy birds at 40 to 50 yards with it.
Training for safety and for tactical situations is a must and plenty of range time getting used to the weapon. You want her as comfortable with the operation and handling of the weapon as possible should the worst case happen.
There is nothing better than a properly armed and trained citizen to thwart the actions of criminals. Remember the girl in Texas and the 911 call....I LOVE Texas and their embracement of personal gun ownership!
IT IS ONE OF THE BEST WRITTEN PRO-GUN ARGUMENT THAT I HAVE EVER READ.
As the Supreme Court hears arguments for and against the Chicago, IL, Gun Ban, I offer you another stellar example of a letter (written by a Marine), that places the proper perspective on what a gun means to a civilized society.
Interesting take and one you don't hear much... Read this eloquent and profound letter and pay close attention to the last paragraph of the letter.....
"The Gun Is Civilization"
By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.
In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.
When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.
The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.
There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society. But, a firearm makes it easier for an armed mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.
People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly .
Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.
People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier, works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.
The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply would not work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.
When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...And that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act !!
By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)
Training for safety and for tactical situations is a must and plenty of range time getting used to the weapon. You want her as comfortable with the operation and handling of the weapon as possible should the worst case happen.
There is nothing better than a properly armed and trained citizen to thwart the actions of criminals. Remember the girl in Texas and the 911 call....I LOVE Texas and their embracement of personal gun ownership!
IT IS ONE OF THE BEST WRITTEN PRO-GUN ARGUMENT THAT I HAVE EVER READ.
As the Supreme Court hears arguments for and against the Chicago, IL, Gun Ban, I offer you another stellar example of a letter (written by a Marine), that places the proper perspective on what a gun means to a civilized society.
Interesting take and one you don't hear much... Read this eloquent and profound letter and pay close attention to the last paragraph of the letter.....
"The Gun Is Civilization"
By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.
In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.
When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.
The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.
There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society. But, a firearm makes it easier for an armed mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.
People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly .
Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.
People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier, works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.
The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply would not work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.
When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...And that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act !!
By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)
Taking her to the range on Tues since she will be out of town this weekend.
03-16-2012, 09:51 AM
#14
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My wife has a Remington 1100 youth. We have 2 kids in the house and wall penetration is an issue. We have it loaded with #4 turkey loads and when tested they will penetrate 2 pieces of 1/2" sheetrock but don't have enough energy to tear paper 10 feet past. On the other hand they totally destroy watermelons at 30-40 feet.
Remember the VP that almost killed someone with a 28 gauge. It's not about bore size but projectile velocity and mass.
Remember the VP that almost killed someone with a 28 gauge. It's not about bore size but projectile velocity and mass.
03-16-2012, 11:51 AM
#15
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Just put that Blackhawk recoil reducing stock on the shotty. I think I may have to go spend a night or two with my sister when all of this goes down. Something tells me that the offending douchebag and his trashy family won't have much of a chance...
I'm going to Academy and Dick's to look for a shorter barrel and maybe a mag extension. The shells in the pic are 2-3/4" #4 BK shot.
I'm going to Academy and Dick's to look for a shorter barrel and maybe a mag extension. The shells in the pic are 2-3/4" #4 BK shot.
Last edited by jeepguy553; 03-16-2012 at 11:54 AM.
03-16-2012, 11:57 AM
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I don't think it is a good idea for anyone to pic up and handle a loaded gun if they have never had experience with guns... Take her to the range to try it out and in the mean time get her some bear mace 
03-16-2012, 03:18 PM
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The stock will help a lot. I found my wife is pretty comfortable with my 20 gauge 870 with knoxx stock and #4 buck. Having said that, if anything ever happens she has already admitted that she will reach for a handgun first every time because it is easier to handle and she gets more practice time with one.
Range time will be really important for learning how to handle a gun safely and to operate it properly. Make sure she doesn't short stroke it either, it's an easy mistake to make - don't want it getting jammed if she has to use it.
Range time will be really important for learning how to handle a gun safely and to operate it properly. Make sure she doesn't short stroke it either, it's an easy mistake to make - don't want it getting jammed if she has to use it.
03-18-2012, 08:51 PM
#18
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Ran a few rounds through the 870 with the new Blackhawk/Knoxx stock and loved it. I doubt it absorbs the stated 95% of felt recoil but it made enough of a difference that my 11-year-old daughter and my 90-pound wife could handle it easily with 3" magnum loads. The shortened length of pull on the stock seemed to make it more natural for them both to shoot...and less perceived kick helped too. My daughter said it kicked less than my 300 Win Mag (Winchester Model 70) does. Now to see how my sister handles it.
Had to post the required poser pic...
Ammo cache not shown...
Had to post the required poser pic...
Ammo cache not shown...
Last edited by jeepguy553; 03-18-2012 at 09:06 PM.
03-23-2012, 08:05 AM
#19
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Any update?
I agree on the 3" magnum buckshot. I'm 6' 205lbs and a Marine and my 18" Mossberg with 3" Magnums will leave a bruise every time. Still have most of a box of them that dad gave me years ago that I just don't feel like shooting very often.
However also realize birdshot is not a man stopper. There are documented cases of people taking a full load to the chest and keeping on going while full of adrenalin and "fight or flight".
That said I want to point out the fallacy in the argument above. Hopefully you know but go pattern a shotgun with bird and buckshot. At "in house" ranges the pattern from either wouldn't fill a hallway or "just wave it in their direction and fire" voids. That's a total myth that unfortunately gets propagated a lot.
Also keep it loaded. Leaving it empty so you can rack the slide and scare them off is stupid. What if the crook is hard of hearing and doesn't immediately poop himself or gets the drop on you and you've got an empty gun?
Remember, when danger is seconds away the cops are minutes away!
As far as ruining her life so would being raped, beat up, killed, or even worse her children taken, beaten, killed, or worse.
Sheeple.
Personally i think it is too much for her, especially shooting magnum loads. I would say get her #5 bird shot something like a turkey round, anything within a 10ft radius of the shot would still get messed up. Its a shotgun not a hunting rifle, pretty much anything you point at in the general direction will get hurt, maim or kill a person, thats just my opinion .......
However also realize birdshot is not a man stopper. There are documented cases of people taking a full load to the chest and keeping on going while full of adrenalin and "fight or flight".
That said I want to point out the fallacy in the argument above. Hopefully you know but go pattern a shotgun with bird and buckshot. At "in house" ranges the pattern from either wouldn't fill a hallway or "just wave it in their direction and fire" voids. That's a total myth that unfortunately gets propagated a lot.
Also keep it loaded. Leaving it empty so you can rack the slide and scare them off is stupid. What if the crook is hard of hearing and doesn't immediately poop himself or gets the drop on you and you've got an empty gun?
a gun might just ruin her life too.As far as ruining her life so would being raped, beat up, killed, or even worse her children taken, beaten, killed, or worse.
Sheeple.
03-23-2012, 08:52 AM
#20
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Get her a very large, very well trained dog. Having a gun for home protection is great but, only if you're well trained. Especially with kids in the house. Good luck!!
Last edited by IZZNICE; 03-25-2012 at 04:35 PM.