A few questions on deciding on a rifle
10-31-2009, 02:33 PM
#31
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There's no doubt the 7.62x39 has more mass, as the average weight is 124gr. for a FMJ, whereas the .223 is 55gr. The velocity is higher with the .223 at 2854 at 100yds and 2487 at 200, as compared to 2030 at 100yds and 1780 at 200 for the 7.62.
There is no dispute the AR round is far more acurate, at both 100 and 200.
As for penitration, since we are not engaging an armored vehicle, but rather a paper target, who cares?
The OP is new into the gun world, and wants to get a nice rifle with a budget of around $600. With that said, I would not even be looking for an AR due to the cost, or anything that shoots .223 due to the cost of the ammo. The AK would be the better choice, as it is far less to purchase, as is the ammo.
For the AK and say 500 rounds of cheap ammo, we are talking about $600 -$700, right about budget.
Now if we look at the HighPoint 995TS, we are looking at a $250 carbine. No it's not going to be as acurate as the AK at 100 yds, but then again with a $100 red dot scope, 100 yds is not that far away once sighted in. As for the ammo the 9mm is one of the least expensive centerfire rounds, 600 rounds can be had for about $150-$200 for a total cost of $500-$600 for all, right at budget.
In addition, the 9mm can also be a very effective HD weapon as it is short and light, however now we're getting into another area, that the OP may or may not be interested in.
For the budget listed and a very fun to shoot weapon, my choice would be either the AK or the HighPoint, and seeing that the later is only 50% the cost of an AK, I know what I would purchase.
There is no dispute the AR round is far more acurate, at both 100 and 200.
As for penitration, since we are not engaging an armored vehicle, but rather a paper target, who cares?
The OP is new into the gun world, and wants to get a nice rifle with a budget of around $600. With that said, I would not even be looking for an AR due to the cost, or anything that shoots .223 due to the cost of the ammo. The AK would be the better choice, as it is far less to purchase, as is the ammo.
For the AK and say 500 rounds of cheap ammo, we are talking about $600 -$700, right about budget.
Now if we look at the HighPoint 995TS, we are looking at a $250 carbine. No it's not going to be as acurate as the AK at 100 yds, but then again with a $100 red dot scope, 100 yds is not that far away once sighted in. As for the ammo the 9mm is one of the least expensive centerfire rounds, 600 rounds can be had for about $150-$200 for a total cost of $500-$600 for all, right at budget.
In addition, the 9mm can also be a very effective HD weapon as it is short and light, however now we're getting into another area, that the OP may or may not be interested in.
For the budget listed and a very fun to shoot weapon, my choice would be either the AK or the HighPoint, and seeing that the later is only 50% the cost of an AK, I know what I would purchase.
11-04-2009, 07:07 AM
#32
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Personally, I would go for an SKS (anything but yugoslavian) and you will be set. 7.62x39
11-04-2009, 12:13 PM
#33
JK Super Freak
be mindful of your states laws.... if you go the ak or ar15 route, you will be restricted to a 10 round mag there. WASR makes a single stack 10 round and a couple AR companies offer a fixed mag weapon too.
Personally, I would go for an SKS (anything but yugoslavian) and you will be set. 7.62x39
Personally, I would go for an SKS (anything but yugoslavian) and you will be set. 7.62x39
And the SKS is also a good choice. It's probably a bit more accurate than an AK as it'ss a bit longer and more like a hunting rifle, and it uses a two-piston recoil system. This helps tame the recoil down some.
I used to have a Chinese Norinco SKS paratrooper model, but got rid of it, it was a pretty good carbine but not nearly as fun to shoot as the AK.
Here's a pretty good buy. A bunch of the guys on PAFOA, have purchased through this company and are pretty happy. They are made by Saiga.
http://www.k-var.com/shop/pages.php?pageid=25
The SGL21 series are nice rifles. Here's an example of one in plum.
In addition they make a nice shotgun in .410 which I'm trying to talk muself into, as it would make a nice HD weapon.
11-05-2009, 05:02 PM
#34
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Yea good point about the state laws.
And the SKS is also a good choice. It's probably a bit more accurate than an AK as it'ss a bit longer and more like a hunting rifle, and it uses a two-piston recoil system. This helps tame the recoil down some.
I used to have a Chinese Norinco SKS paratrooper model, but got rid of it, it was a pretty good carbine but not nearly as fun to shoot as the AK.
Here's a pretty good buy. A bunch of the guys on PAFOA, have purchased through this company and are pretty happy. They are made by Saiga.
http://www.k-var.com/shop/pages.php?pageid=25
The SGL21 series are nice rifles. Here's an example of one in plum.
Attachment 32417
In addition they make a nice shotgun in .410 which I'm trying to talk muself into, as it would make a nice HD weapon.
Attachment 32418
And the SKS is also a good choice. It's probably a bit more accurate than an AK as it'ss a bit longer and more like a hunting rifle, and it uses a two-piston recoil system. This helps tame the recoil down some.
I used to have a Chinese Norinco SKS paratrooper model, but got rid of it, it was a pretty good carbine but not nearly as fun to shoot as the AK.
Here's a pretty good buy. A bunch of the guys on PAFOA, have purchased through this company and are pretty happy. They are made by Saiga.
http://www.k-var.com/shop/pages.php?pageid=25
The SGL21 series are nice rifles. Here's an example of one in plum.
Attachment 32417
In addition they make a nice shotgun in .410 which I'm trying to talk muself into, as it would make a nice HD weapon.
Attachment 32418
11-06-2009, 03:18 PM
#35
JK Enthusiast
Hey, So Cal tay12.
Here's your problem..You live in COMMIFORNIA..The land of Liberal fruits and nuts.
You are VERY limited on what you can Own.!
Your in the OC so stroll on over to J&J Armory and get the scoop...
If you want an AR15 it has to have an off list reciever, a bullet button, and a 10 round magazine..If not , your under arrest for having a assault weapon.
I built my own AR and once I moved out of Commifornia I removed my bullet button, bought some 30 rd mags and shot to my hearts content.
So IMHO I would go with the Ruger Mini 14 in 223. This gun is fun to shoot and has a bunch of aftermarket stuff you can add...If you get bold, build yourself a Commifornia compilaint AR..
Here's your problem..You live in COMMIFORNIA..The land of Liberal fruits and nuts.
You are VERY limited on what you can Own.!
Your in the OC so stroll on over to J&J Armory and get the scoop...
If you want an AR15 it has to have an off list reciever, a bullet button, and a 10 round magazine..If not , your under arrest for having a assault weapon.
I built my own AR and once I moved out of Commifornia I removed my bullet button, bought some 30 rd mags and shot to my hearts content.
So IMHO I would go with the Ruger Mini 14 in 223. This gun is fun to shoot and has a bunch of aftermarket stuff you can add...If you get bold, build yourself a Commifornia compilaint AR..
11-06-2009, 07:27 PM
#36
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Hey, So Cal tay12.
Here's your problem..You live in COMMIFORNIA..The land of Liberal fruits and nuts.
You are VERY limited on what you can Own.!
Your in the OC so stroll on over to J&J Armory and get the scoop...
If you want an AR15 it has to have an off list reciever, a bullet button, and a 10 round magazine..If not , your under arrest for having a assault weapon.
I built my own AR and once I moved out of Commifornia I removed my bullet button, bought some 30 rd mags and shot to my hearts content.
So IMHO I would go with the Ruger Mini 14 in 223. This gun is fun to shoot and has a bunch of aftermarket stuff you can add...If you get bold, build yourself a Commifornia compilaint AR..
Here's your problem..You live in COMMIFORNIA..The land of Liberal fruits and nuts.
You are VERY limited on what you can Own.!
Your in the OC so stroll on over to J&J Armory and get the scoop...
If you want an AR15 it has to have an off list reciever, a bullet button, and a 10 round magazine..If not , your under arrest for having a assault weapon.
I built my own AR and once I moved out of Commifornia I removed my bullet button, bought some 30 rd mags and shot to my hearts content.
So IMHO I would go with the Ruger Mini 14 in 223. This gun is fun to shoot and has a bunch of aftermarket stuff you can add...If you get bold, build yourself a Commifornia compilaint AR..
Ruger Mini 14..... IS .....the way to go!!!
I've got one & it rocks!!!
11-07-2009, 08:34 AM
#38
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I've heard that Spetsnaz were big fans of the Saiga semi-auto 12 ga. shotgun. Probably not what you're looking for, but if Saiga is good enough for them, they're good enough for me. I'd trust their AK's.
11-18-2009, 03:57 PM
#39
JK Super Freak
I'm telling you, check out the high point 995TS. You may say it's a cheap rifle, but I'm saying it's an inexpensive rifle, very well built with a lifetime guarantee. All parts made in the US using US materals. Will most likely meet Calif. fruit and nut laws cause it only has a 10 rd mag.
It's a fun to shoot weapon, with very little kick, and is accurate to at least 50 yds for plinking with iron sites.
I have two. Paid $230 each. On one I added a Barska 1X 50mm Red dot from Buds Gun Shop for 19.95 and a Sig tactical LED with strobe at 200.00 to make it a nice HD weapon. So I've got a total of 450.00 in the one. The other is stock. I've already put about 500 rounds through the modified and at 75yds I'm grouping 5 at 2", with no failures at all.
I can't say enough about these HighPoints.
The .40 cals are beginning to show up, but hard to get, cause as soon as they arive, they are gone. The .45 cal is due sometime after the new year, at least in this area, and I've already got my name at 3 different shops.
This is a great carbine at only 32" long and a weight of 7lbs, it's very easy to handle. Flame if you want but before you do go find someone who has one and shoot it.
In addition the .223 in 500 round bulk Ultramax is about 190.00.
The 9mm in 600 round bulk is 175.00